Cameron’s sleight-of-hand on Williams?

Many hard things have been said about Rowan Williams and it was, by and large, justified. He did not come out firmly on doctrinal matters which allow of no debate but did, in the last few years, on the gay mafia’s ludicrous attempts to define their partnerships as marriage.

His unequivocal statement was to his credit.

It’s beginning to look as if Cameron is playing games with the gay community. I wrote before that he doesn’t give a damn for them and it certainly begins to look that way.

Appointing John Sentamu who is anti-gay “marriage” may be the deal. You let us appoint a Ugandan and we’ll lay off the gay issue. There’s no other way to see it because Sentamu’s position is equally unequivocal.

Now, on Sentamu himself, it’s neither here nor there to me although I do think an English Archbishop should have been appointed for England. Sentamu would be a fabulous appointment for the land of his birth.

Let’s say that he is part of the game as well and that an Englishman will eventually be appointed after the brouhaha. What’s the bet he’s a socialist liberal again? If a miracle occurs and a conservative English theologian of impeccable qualifications is appointed, I’ll publicly eat humble pie on this blog.


Sigh – what a prat Cameron is.


Update – well done sir. Maybe you’re not that bad after all:

Archbishop: wearing a cross does not offend non-Christians

Hey! What’s he on? I want some:

Slams ‘dim-witted prejudice’ against Christianity in Britain

13 comments for “Cameron’s sleight-of-hand on Williams?

  1. nemesis
    March 16, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    The church may discriminate on homosexuality issues but I dont believe they discriminate on land of birth.

  2. Hexe Froschbein
    March 16, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    “If a miracle occurs and a conservative English theologian of impeccable qualifications is appointed, I’ll publicly eat humble pie on this blog.”

    Do they even exist?

  3. March 16, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Nemesis – on homosexuality, the Church has no choice. Just as we must abide by the laws of the land, such as they are, the Church must go by its scripture and that scripture is unequivocal.

    The question of whether those beliefs are right or wrong is entirely different.

    On the word “discrimination”, thrown about with abandon here, is it discrimination that a mother favours her own child, or that a head teacher favours his own school or that Alex Ferguson is extremely biased towards ManU? To suggest they shouldn’t is PCism taken to insanity. And of course, the top jobs in any country should go to people from that country – that’s so basic it hardly needs spelling out.

    HF – “Do they even exist?”

    It’s a sad state of affairs that you may be right [on this, I mean].

    • nemesis
      March 17, 2012 at 12:18 am

      James, I have no issue at all with the Church’s stand on homosexuality. I do however think that the top jobs should go to the top people. I do not know much about Sentamu but he seems to identify with the English (calling for a re-discovery of English pride and cultural identity according to Wiki) and seems quite strong on Christian values. I am sure that many ‘top’ jobs in this country go to people not of English origin. Sorry – but perhaps you do have to spell it out.

  4. March 16, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    I can’t see a problem with Sentamu not being an Englishman by birth. Rowan Williams is Welsh, isn’t he? And I’m sure plenty of the Archbishops of Canterbury were French from 1066 onwards. Besides the head of the church is the reigning monarch, and they can hardly complain of foreign-ness.

    • Hexe Froschbein
      March 18, 2012 at 1:39 am

      I don’t think much of your logic here… 😉

      A was a fail, so we should not complain that B is not what we want either. Plus we have a long tradition of fail, so why start doing something sensible now?

  5. March 17, 2012 at 5:46 am

    Nemesis and Trooper – the thing I’d apologize for is my tone, for example in the comment: “the word “discrimination” thrown about with abandon here”.

    It’s just that we’re at a frustrating time, as you know and various terms are being thrown about at random in public, e.g. racism, sexism. When it actually isn’t done that way for once and in fact the suggestion is a perfectly rational and sensible one, we can sometimes be caught out thinking it is part of the rash usage.

    Whilst still sticking to the point on English-born and disagreeing with both of you, I do apologize for the heat and the assumption of the first reply. I would say though that I did write: “on Sentamu himself, it’s neither here nor there to me”. I mean, it does have its upside in that he is agin gay “marriage” in the C of E.

    That will almost certainly set the scene for the biggest bunfight we’ve seen for many a long year and we’ll probably see the connect between Church and State severed, which many would like. I don’t think the two should be connected either, [except ceremonially because of our heritage], on the grounds that the Church is then restricted on speaking out.

    Of course, the reason rationalists want to see it disconnected is the better to destroy it and wipe Christianity off the face of the earth [the rabid, Dawkinesque ones like Cameron and Prince Charles]. It’s no longer mentioned to children in their upbringing but this fight will only put it back on the map and kids might well ask what this is all about.

    GK Chesterton wrote a story on it being killed off. It never looks very well, it’s always been on its deathbed but it never quite dies. If he wrote that, then this issue is far from new. And it’s where the word came from:


    • James Strong
      March 17, 2012 at 12:30 pm

      Do they really want to ‘wipe Christianity off the face of the earth’?
      I’m an atheist and I believe that all religions are equally false, but I’d be satisfied if the CofE was just removed from its position of privilege. I don’t want it wiped out, and I suspect you are wrong when you state that this is the goal of the rationalists you mention.
      I think would be more accurate to say that, like me, they would like religion to be put in a place where it can be ignored.

      However, although I think all religions are equally false they are not all equally dangerous. The Gold Medal for Dangerous Religions goes to the Religion of Peace.
      I’m not sure what to do about that one.

      • March 17, 2012 at 3:15 pm

        I’d like to see the disestablishment of the CofE, not because they have any special privileges, but because they are held captive by the state. It was the state that took control of the church, not the other way around, and I think they gain little from their so-called special privileges, and lose more.

    • nemesis
      March 17, 2012 at 1:45 pm

      Apology accepted.
      Afraid Im still not getting why you believe; ” the top jobs in any country should go to people from that country – that’s so basic it hardly needs spelling out”

      • March 18, 2012 at 6:22 am

        Nemesis, if you can’t get such a self-evident thing, then there’s no basis for understanding on it and that militates against the nurturing and development of our homegrown talent. We can learn from around the world and bring all that to the table but if our industry is owned by foreigners, the top jobs are in foreign hands and piece by piece, the country becomes owned by foreigners, then that is an issue that more than I have spoken of many times in the past.

        • nemesis
          March 19, 2012 at 10:35 am

          OK, The very English Mr. Cameron holds perhaps the top job in the country. I think there would be alot of people would take issue that he is doing a great job of defending British interests.
          The nurturing of home grown talent has more to do with education (or lack of it).
          Most commercial interests are owned by shareholders and the first duty of a CEO is to those shareholders. Are you suggesting that all shareholders in British companies should be British? You might find that alot of international trade would cease to exist. If you promote nationality over competence you are in the realms of social engineering and the results of which are not pretty. Having foreign owners holding a monopoly over basic utilities I think is different issue.

  6. March 18, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Well, well, well and what have we here? Would you take my word for it that my original draft on the Williams’ resignation, at that time not knowing about Sentamu, said things like: “Just watch the bstds appoint another socialist liberal [and I wrote it with that strike-through] as Williams was when he started.”

    Then I found out about Sentamu and wrote the post I did.

    Imagine my shock when I just read now:

    The source added that the liberal Bishop of Norwich, Graham James, 61, was ‘very competent and a safe pair of hands’. The anonymous briefings will enrage supporters of Dr Sentamu, who believe the Church needs a charismatic, plain-speaking leader who would take on the Government over such issues as gay marriage.

    That’s outrageous. “Safe-pair-of-hands” is code, of course, for non-Christian and soft on gay non-marriage. Sentamu “loses his temper”. Oh yes and what did he lose his temper about? Could it have been about the total ineffectiveness of the Church in standing up for Christian values, which is its brief so to do? If this Graham James gets it, then the Church really is down the drain and will split.

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