The problem with writing anything about Vietnam is that it quickly fixes your position in the firmament and it’s such a vast subject, with all sorts of angles which, at that level, were probably true.

I come at it from two angles – the visible plus the later discovered nefarious level. Three Days of the Condor and many other films nail the CIA part, there’s much online about Kissinger who played the role of Colonel House as presidential minder, then there is the folder of quotes I have from the personages of the day which leave little doubt that this was part of a broader global plan which has since come about.

At a minimum, it shows that the thinking of those in high places, e.g. Robert McNamara and even Truman was global rather than American.

On June 28, 1945, President Truman said:

“It will be just as easy for nations to get along in a republic of the world as it is for us to get along in a republic of the United States.” On October 24, 1945, the United Nations Charter became effective.*

On July 1948, Sir Harold Butler, in the CFR’s “Foreign Affairs,” saw “a New World Order” taking shape:

“How far can the life of nations, which for centuries have thought of themselves as distinct and unique, be merged with the life of other nations? How far are they prepared to sacrifice a part of their sovereignty without which there can be no effective economic or political union?”

On Feb. 7, 1950, International financier and CFR member James Warburg told a Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee:

“We shall have world government whether or not you like it – by conquest or consent.”

CFR thinking is very much behind presidential policy thinking, as was later shown in the SPPNA and the meeting of Bush, Martin and Fox on March 13th, 2005, with a view to a NAU under the advice of the NAAC, a body comprised mainly of CFR member or friendly officers.

On Feb. 9, 1950, the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee introduced Senate Concurrent Resolution #66 which began:

“Whereas, in order to achieve universal peace and justice, the present Charter of the United Nations should be changed to provide a true world government constitution.”

The resolution was introduced by Senator Glen Taylor (D-Idaho), who later stated:

“We would have to sacrifice considerable sovereignty to the world organization to enable them to levy taxes in their own right to support themselves.”

On April 12, 1952, CFR member John Foster Dulles [who later became Secretary of State, in speaking before the American Bar Association in Louisville, Kentucky, said:

“Treaty law can override the Constitution. Treaties can take powers away from Congress and give them to the President. They can take powers from the States and give them to the Federal Government or to some international body, and they can cut across the rights given to the people by their constitutional Bill of Rights.”

In the same year, the World Association of Parliamentarians for World Government drew up a map designed to illustrate how foreign troops would occupy and police the six regions into which the United States and Canada would be divided as part of their world government plan.

So this sort of thinking not only was integrally involved in the UN – Eleanor Roosevelt is testament to that – but those in a position of influencing government were hard at the world government idea, with the US naturally at the head of that.

Now this is an angle I’d venture to say most people would not have considered and how can it be reconciled with the known-knowns of Kent State, Hanoi Jane, the Yuri Bezmenov testimony which plays up the KGB’s role, Kissinger etc.? Just who was Kissinger playing for?

Then there is the whole JFK assassination thing with LBJ going on to bomb the hell out of Vietnam and all sorts of William Calley things went on – they’ve not stopped – Abu Ghraib, plus the recent one.

It seems to me, in the light of the post on Uncle Gus at OoL, that it’s not so much who is right or wrong, it might be that we all have fragments of the truth but not necessarily the other parts and possession of the others can significantly alter the picture. We’re all in this position – hence the moves of govt to keep information hidden from the people. It also explains the apoplexy of Kissinger over Daniel Ellesberg but some have suggested it was faux apoplexy anyway and that Ellesberg was just as much a part of it as anyone.

Churchmouse’s piece on Vietnam is excellent and the comments below it sane and intelligent but I’d dare to say they don’t show the whole picture.

Into the picture, one needs to put Laurel Canyon and the beat generation, Marcuse, Adorno, Kesey, Spock, Leary and all those singers, e.g. Joni Mitchell, Sly Stone etc. One needs to see Kerry up on the rostrum with Hanoi Jane, cajoling the sheeple. I was one of those sheeple at that time, so there is a personal aspect to this as well. That dates me.

Laurel Canyon:

It is the first week of August, 1964, and U.S. warships under the command of U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison have allegedly come under attack while patrolling Vietnam’s Tonkin Gulf. This event, subsequently dubbed the ‘Tonkin Gulf Incident,’ will result in the immediate passing by the U.S. Congress of the obviously pre-drafted Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which will, in turn, quickly lead to America’s deep immersion into the bloody Vietnam quagmire.

In March of 1965, the first uniformed U.S. soldier will officially set foot on Vietnamese soil (although Special Forces units masquerading as ‘advisers’ and ‘trainers’ had been there for at least four years, and likely much longer).

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world in those early months of 1965, a new ‘scene’ is just beginning to take shape in the city of Los Angeles. In a geographically and socially isolated community known as Laurel Canyon – a heavily wooded, rustic, serene, yet vaguely ominous slice of LA nestled in the hills that separate the Los Angeles basin from the San Fernando Valley – musicians, singers and songwriters suddenly begin to gather as though summoned there by some unseen Pied Piper. Within months, the ‘hippie/flower child’ movement will be given birth there, along with the new style of music that will provide the soundtrack for the tumultuous second half of the 1960s.

An uncanny number of rock music superstars will emerge from Laurel Canyon beginning in the mid-1960s and carrying through the decade of the 1970s. The first to drop an album will be The Byrds, whose biggest star will prove to be David Crosby. The band’s debut effort, “Mr. Tambourine Man,” will be released on the Summer Solstice of 1965. It will quickly be followed by releases from the John Phillips-led Mamas and the Papas (“If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears,” January 1966), Love with Arthur Lee (“Love,” May 1966), Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention (“Freak Out,” June 1966), Buffalo Springfield, featuring Stephen Stills and Neil Young (“Buffalo Springfield,” October 1966), and The Doors (“The Doors,” January 1967).

One of the earliest on the Laurel Canyon/Sunset Strip scene is Jim Morrison … Curiously enough, the self-proclaimed “Lizard King” has another claim to fame as well, albeit one that none of his numerous chroniclers will feel is of much relevance to his career and possible untimely death: he is the son, as it turns out, of the aforementioned Admiral George Stephen Morrison.

Laurel Canyon’s father figure is the rather eccentric personality known as Frank Zappa. Ensconced in an abode dubbed the ‘Log Cabin’ – which sat right in the heart of Laurel Canyon, at the crossroads of Laurel Canyon Boulevard and Lookout Mountain Avenue – Zappa will play host to virtually every musician who passes through the canyon in the mid- to late-1960s. The ‘Log Cabin’ was a cavernous five-level home that featured a 2,000+ square-foot living room with three massive chandeliers and an enormous floor-to-ceiling stone fireplace.

Nevertheless, Zappa (born on the Winter Solstice of 1940) never really made a secret of the fact that he had nothing but contempt for the ‘hippie’ culture that he helped create and that he surrounded himself with. Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture.

Coincidences happen though, don’t they?

Francis Zappa [Snr] was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose.

Zappa’s manager, by the way, Herb Cohen,had come out to L.A. from the Bronx with his brother Mutt just before the music and club scene began heating up. Cohen, a former U.S. Marine, had spent a few years traveling the world and those travels, curiously, had taken him to the Congo in 1961, at the very time that leftist Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba was being tortured and killed by our very own CIA.

Making up the other half of Laurel Canyon’s First Family is Frank’s wife, Gail Zappa, known formerly as Adelaide Sloatman, from a long line of career Naval officers, including her father, who spent his life working on classified nuclear weapons research for the U.S. Navy. Gail herself had once worked as a secretary for the Office of Naval Research and Development (she also once told an interviewer that she had “heard voices all [her] life”). Many years before their nearly simultaneous arrival in Laurel Canyon, Gail had attended a Naval kindergarten with “Mr. Mojo Risin’” himself, Jim Morrison who had later attended the same Alexandria, Virginia high school as two other future Laurel Canyon luminaries – John Phillips and Cass Elliott.

Alexandria, Virginia, is home to an interesting Temple, the spiritual home of … but let’s not digress at this point.

“Papa” John Phillips, more so than probably any of the other illustrious residents of Laurel Canyon, will play a major role in spreading the emerging youth ‘counterculture’ across America. His contribution will be twofold: first, he will co-organize (along with Manson associate Terry Melcher) the famed Monterrey Pop Festival, which, through unprecedented media exposure, will give mainstream America its first real look at the music and fashions of the nascent ‘hippie’ movement. Second, Phillips will pen an insipid song known as “San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair),” which will quickly rise to the top of the charts.

John Edmund Andrew Phillips was, shockingly enough, yet another child of the military/intelligence complex. The son of U.S. Marine Corp Captain Claude Andrew Phillips and a mother who claimed to have psychic and telekinetic powers, John attended a series of elite military prep schools in the Washington, D.C. area, culminating in an appointment to the prestigious U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis

After leaving Annapolis, John married Susie Adams, a direct descendant of ‘Founding Father’ John Adams. Susie’s father, James Adams, Jr., had been involved in what Susie described as “cloak-and-dagger stuff with the Air Force in Vienna,” or what we like to call covert intelligence operations.

Susie herself would later find employment at the Pentagon, alongside John Phillip’s older sister, Rosie, who dutifully reported to work at the complex for nearly thirty years. John’s mother, ‘Dene’ Phillips, also worked for most of her life for the federal government in some unspecified capacity.

And John’s older brother, Tommy, was a battle-scarred former U.S. Marine who found work as a cop on the Alexandria police force, albeit one with a disciplinary record for exhibiting a violent streak when dealing with people of color.

John Phillips, of course – though surrounded throughout his life by military/intelligence personnel – did not involve himself in such matters. Or so we are to believe. Before succeeding in his musical career, however, John did seem to find himself, quite innocently of course, in some rather unusual places. One such place was Havana, Cuba, where Phillips arrived at the very height of the Cuban Revolution.

For the record, Phillips has claimed that he went to Havana as nothing more than a concerned private citizen, with the intention of – you’re going to love this one – “fighting for Castro.” During the two weeks or so that the Cuban Missile Crisis played out, a few years after Castro took power, Phillips found himself cooling his heels in Jacksonville, Florida – alongside, coincidentally I’m sure, the Mayport Naval Station.

Again – mere coincidence.

Before his arrival in Laurel Canyon, Stephen Stills was the product of yet another career military family. Raised partly in Texas, young Stephen spent large swathes of his childhood in El Salvador, Costa Rica, the Panama Canal Zone, and various other parts of Central America – alongside his father, who was, we can be fairly certain, helping to spread ‘democracy’ to the unwashed masses. [Curiously], the follow up to Stills’s “For What It’s Worth” [was] entitled “Bluebird,” which, coincidentally or not, happens to be the original codename assigned to the MK-ULTRA program.


Stephen [would] later tell anyone who [would] sit and listen that he had served time for Uncle Sam in the jungles of Vietnam. These tales [would] be universally dismissed by chroniclers of the era as nothing more than drug-induced delusions. Such a thing couldn’t possibly be true since Stills arrived on the Laurel Canyon scene at the very time that the first uniformed troops began shipping out and he remained in the public eye thereafter.

The U.S. [though] had thousands of ‘advisers’ – which is to say, CIA/Special Forces operatives – operating in the country for a good many years before the arrival of the first official ground troops. [G]iven his background, his age, and the timeline of events, Stephen Stills not only could indeed have seen action in Vietnam, he would seem to have been a prime candidate for such an assignment. After which, of course, he could rather quickly become – stop me if you’ve heard this one before – an icon of the peace generation.

David Crosby, founding member of the Byrds, as well as, of course, Crosby, Stills & Nash [was] the son of an Annapolis graduate and WWII military intelligence officer, Major Floyd Delafield Crosby. Like others in this story, Floyd Crosby spent much of his post-service time traveling the world. Those travels landed him in places like Haiti, where he paid a visit in 1927, when the country just happened to be, coincidentally of course, under military occupation by the U.S. Marines. One of the Marines doing that occupying was a guy that we met earlier by the name of Captain Claude Andrew Phillips.

David Van Cortlandt Crosby, as it turns out, is [of the] Van Cortlandt, Van Schuyler and Van Rensselaer families. And while you’re probably thinking, “the Van Who families?,” I can assure you that if you plug those names in over at Wikipedia, you can spend a pretty fair amount of time reading up on the power wielded by this clan for the last, oh, two-and-a-quarter centuries or so.

Suffice it to say that the Crosby family tree includes a truly dizzying array of US senators and congressmen, state senators and assemblymen, governors, mayors, judges, Supreme Court justices, Revolutionary and Civil War generals, signers of the Declaration of Independence, and members of the Continental Congress. It also includes, I should hasten to add – for those of you with a taste for such things – more than a few high-ranking Masons.

Stephen Van Rensselaer III, for example, reportedly served as Grand Master of Masons for New York. And if all that isn’t impressive enough, according to the New England Genealogical Society, David Van Cortlandt Crosby is also a direct descendant of ‘Founding Fathers’ and Federalist Papers’ authors Alexander Hamilton and John Jay.

According to those closest to him, it is a rare occasion when Mr. Crosby is not packing heat (John Phillips also owned and sometimes carried handguns). And according to Crosby himself, he has, on at least one occasion, discharged a firearm in anger at another human being. All of which made him, of course, an obvious choice for the Flower Children to rally around.

Another shining star on the Laurel Canyon scene, just a few years later, will be singer-songwriter Jackson Browne, who is – are you getting as bored with this as I am? – the product of a career military family. Browne’s father was assigned to post-war ‘reconstruction’ work in Germany, which very likely means that he was in the employ of the OSS, precursor to the CIA … Against that backdrop, Jackson Browne was born in a military hospital in Heidelberg, Germany.

Some two decades later, he emerged as … oh, never mind.

Gerry Beckley, Dan Peek and Dewey Bunnell will score huge hits in the early ‘70s with such songs as “Ventura Highway,” “A Horse With No Name,” and the Wizard of Oz-themed “The Tin Man.” I guess I probably don’t need to add here that all three of these lads were products of the military/intelligence community. Beckley’s dad was the commander of the now-defunct West Ruislip USAF base near London, England, a facility deeply immersed in intelligence operations. Bunnell’s and Peek’s fathers were both career Air Force officers serving under Beckley’s dad at West Ruislip, which is where the three boys first met.

Mike Nesmith of the Monkees and Cory Wells of Three Dog Night both arrived not long after serving time with the U.S. Air Force. Nesmith also inherited a family fortune estimated at $25 million. Gram Parsons was the son of Major Cecil Ingram “Coon Dog” Connor II, a decorated military officer and bomber pilot who reportedly flew over 50 combat missions. Parsons was also an heir, on his mother’s side, to the formidable Snively family fortune. Said to be the wealthiest family in the exclusive enclave of Winter Haven, Florida, the Snively family was the proud owner of Snively Groves, Inc., which reportedly owned as much as 1/3 of all the citrus groves in the state of Florida.

Finally, you might find the offspring of an organized crime figure, like Warren Zevon, the son of William “Stumpy” Zevon, a lieutenant for infamous LA crimelord Mickey Cohen.

All these folks gathered nearly simultaneously along the narrow, winding roads of Laurel Canyon. They came from across the country – although the Washington, DC area was noticeably over-represented – as well as from Canada and England. They came even though, at the time, there wasn’t much of a pop music industry in Los Angeles. They came even though, at the time, there was no live pop music scene to speak of. They came even though, in retrospect, there was no discernible reason for them to do so.

Another denizen of Laurel Canyon for a brief time was one Charles Manson.

How does one reconcile our image of what was going on at the time with Rowan Gaither, President of the Ford Foundation, who told a Congressional commission investigating tax-exempt foundations in 1953:

“We at the executive level here were active in either the OSS [forerunner of the CIA], the State Department, or the European Economic Administration. During those times, and without exception, we operated under directives issued by the White House. We are continuing to be guided by just such directives, the substance of which were to the effect that we should make every effort to so alter life in the United States as to make possible a comfortable merger with the Soviet Union.”

There is Senator William Jenner whom I’ve quoted many times, referring to the elite corp and much of that corps is in key positions, e.g. in academia and that is my former stomping ground so I’m not talking out of my backside here. I’ve hobnobbed with these people and they’re every bit as corrosive and skewed as made out. I was a signed up member of Fabian clubs at three institutions and went to demonstrations.

More of the same – Council on Foreign Relations Study Number 7 [Nov. 25, 1959] called for a

“…new international order which must be responsive to world aspirations for peace, for social and economic change…an international order…including states labeling themselves as ‘socialist’ [communist].”

It’s been said that this was a study, nothing more. Let me remind those people what the CFR “study” on the NAU resulted in and that almost all presidents and many other candidates, have been members of the CFR at some stage.

In 1961, the U.S. State Department issued Document 7277, entitled “Freedom From War: The U.S. Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World.” It detailed a three-stage plan to disarm all nations and arm the U.N. with the final stage in which “no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force.”

This was the Vietnam time when national interest was officially projected as being paramount and troops were being sent for what? For whom? For Uncle Sam?

It’s still apocryphal but those who pooh-pooh this have not brought definitive closure to their denial – on Nov. 13, 1963, ten days prior to his assassination, President John F. Kennedy is alleged to have told a Columbia University audience [by audience members]: “The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans’ freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizens of this plight.”

It’s one you might dismiss, were it not for Woodrow Wilson who said something similar, plus Ike in his farewell speech.

And of course everyone knows of Professor Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton’s mentor at Georgetown University, who in 1966 authored a massive volume entitled “Tragedy and Hope” in which he stated:

“There does exist and has existed for a generation, an international network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so.

I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records.

I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies, but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.”

This is precisely what Jenner was saying and now someone from the other side of politics was saying it.

Can you therefore understand the frustration of many of us who know these things and then read assertions by those not aware of these things which are quite erroneous as they reflect on US foreign policy at the time?

And near the end of Vietnam [western involvement], on May 18, 1972, Roy M. Ash, Director of the Office of Management and Budget, declared that:

“…within two decades the institutional framework for a world economic community will be in place…and aspects of individual sovereignty will be given over to a supernational authority.”

The bottom line, of course, is not if all this has yet happened – much of it is happening right now – but of the mindset of those in high places and the obvious question of why those in high places even have this mindset – in other words, who appointed them? Looking into the mechanisms of who appoints whom in govt in the United States is time well spent.

At a minimum, judging national sovereignty to be a summum bonum, something worth fighting for, as our forebears did in WWs 1 and 2, in Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere – Afghanistan – then the govt comprises quislings who do not have the national interest which they are charged to protect, which they rabbit on about, at heart.

In other words, they are guilty, not only of treason but of sedition. They need to be tried at a Nuremberg scale trial by a jury, each member of whose antecedents need to be scrupulously investigated before being sworn in.

This post opened with a youtube of the bombing and it’s a cold-hearted person who is not affected by that. I was too and at the time, was part of the whole movement against the war. I’m still against war, even having been military for part of my life.

What I also was at the time was Fabian and that’s another question altogether. Just why a political ideology could get so interwoven into legitimate anti-war feeling is a puzzler which we, as young people, never really analysed – it would be decades later I’d start to do that.

In other words, by what logic does one oppose government intervention and oppression, only for that to result in supporting government intervention and oppression through Fabianism, through left-liberalism – call it what you want? Where is the logic here?

Yet that’s what happened, courtesy of academia and the media. An issue – that govt was doing very great wrong or to bring it into the present, that the banksters are doing very great wrong – is opposed and protested against.

That’s the issue. That’s it, that’s an end on’t. There’s no political ideology in that, just humanity.

Yet somehow a state-run system is then proposed – from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs – and is embraced by so many. Why? How does one have anything to do with the other? Surely it’s far more logical to recognize the MIC, Them, the PTB, are a conglomerate of all those people up there and our aim should be to remove them, but not to alter the whole fabric of society – we weren’t the guilty in this, why should we be dispossessed by an ideology?

Rather than propose left-liberal further interventionism to correct the interventionism, how about just leaving us alone to get on with our lives without you telling us what to do? Drop the crippling taxes, drop the VAT, contract the govt, let us start to breathe again, set up businesses, have our pensions honoured, trade and intermingle freely. Stop imposing feminism and destroying families, stop imposing gay “marriage” which doesn’t even exist yet banning things which do matter.

Just get the hell out of our lives and leave us out of your grandiose schemes.

The ordinary person goes about his business. Into this comes Vietnam. The PTB are using this to lead towards world govt and a state run system – see the post above. At the same time, those protesting against this are also supporting a state run system [socialism].

Wha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a? Tell me how that works?


7 comments for “Vietnam

  1. mona
    November 18, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    At last some interesting writing. its not John Kerry its John Kahn in the red circle, Bin Laden’s obituary was published in the Egyptian newspaper AL-WAFD 15-DEC-2001. If the energy spent on who did it?, was spent on WHY ? much of the crimes against humanity may not have happened what do think Mr Blair?.

    • November 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm

      Irrespective of the photo, Kerry was involved:

      … and:

      As for the photo itself:




      • mona
        November 18, 2013 at 5:44 pm

        Kahn from his mummy and daddy kerry for his voters,

        • November 27, 2013 at 10:27 am

          Apologies for the late response. I’ve only now been able to research this.

          This could be an instance of two people who looked alike.

          There is an entry for John Kahn on Wikipedia:

          ‘John Kahn (June 13, 1947 – May 30, 1996) was an American rock and roll bass guitarist. For a period of about twenty five years Kahn was Jerry Garcia’s principal collaborator outside of the Grateful Dead.

          ‘John Kahn was born in Memphis, Tennessee. Adopted at birth by the Kahn family, he grew up in Beverly Hills, California.

          ‘Kahn first began his collaborations with Jerry Garcia’s numerous side projects in May 1970, as bassist of Jerry Garcia and Howard Wales. He played in every line-up of the Jerry Garcia Band, and was in many other Garcia side projects, including Reconstruction, the reformed version of Jerry Garcia and Merl Saunders that made its public debut in 1979.’

          Kahn died of a heroin overdose in 1996.

  2. November 18, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    Thanks for this, James — greatly appreciated!

    I was pondering many of the same questions at the weekend.

    Thanks also for the Laurel Canyon link — which I’d read a few years ago.

    I would recommend that everyone read the Laurel Canyon story; it’s fascinating. It’s most peculiar how this assortment of people — including Warren Beatty (whose father also had a government posting) — went from Manhattan to that particular district in California.

    • November 20, 2013 at 5:20 am

      If you add some of this to your excellent series on Vietnam, CM, that’s a pretty good picture.

      • November 21, 2013 at 11:29 pm

        My pleasure, James. I’ve cited it three times this week. There is much useful information here.

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