It’s often not the dastardly plot but a cascade of events, not even a cascade of errors.

Russia fears the NATO/CIA involvement and knows it’s going on – did the KGB and other unit intelligence just disappear overnight in 1990? So it’s night follows day that they supply weaponry. But they’ve also been supplying the Ukraine in former days.

You can even put a positive slant on NATO/CIA – that they are hemming in the Russian beast or the Evil Empire, as Reagan called it.

From my days in Russia, there were two prevailing feelings – one that America wants to attack Russia in the west and China in the East – it is very close to most Russians’ minds [at least from what the sample I met believed].

The people though, as they do here, were getting their views from state channel TV and deep captured private TV, just as it is here today. We’ve seen many examples of the MSM lying through its teeth and there’s an example in this post.

So let’s work with the idea that views are highly slanted, even though everyone thinks he’s being eminently unbiased and perspicacious.

Also within Russians is a deep criticism of current government – the difference being that over here, one perceives one can criticize and get away with it when in fact, the more exposed the view, the more it’s like Russia [David Kelly]. It just seems more benign to us because we believe our myth of freedom.

Look, I had more freedom of speech in Russia than here. I was never castigated for holding views, whereas over here, the PCists have vilified me and told me to stop writing these things.

At ground level, ours is a far more fascistic society with the PC thought police – and the government snooping would do the USSR proud. So the feeling of Russians towards the Americans and English is the same as many over here towards Russians – it’s Putin who comes up on the anti side and the ordinary person is just the ordinary person hoodwinked by his MSM, just as with Germans in WW2. Deeply unhappy about a destabilized society, they look to a Messiah.

This is the bit which worries me about Nigel with his People’s Army. I’m no one’s army, except my country’s.

And so to the report.

It’s inconclusive. Significant is that the Mail allowed comments, which were mostly Kiev did it and a few that it was the rebels but the Telegraph did not run comments in its story that the report “proved” rebels had done it.

There was another view, in comments at the Mail, that it was the rebels but they thought they were firing on military planes. Ironically, the view used to support them doing it is consistent with proximity weapons – that the missile hit the nearest target.

Reading the views, the utter conviction on each side, the willingness not to look at ALL the available evidence dispassionately, the need to fit bits of evidence to the narrative one believes and ignore the rest [Sergeant Holcombe – post passim at NO], the totally closed minds of people one way or the other – these are dismaying. On both sides.

So, the report does support the idea of the single missile and fragmentation in proximity, even from above. On the other hand, this can’t be dismissed:

# If you read all of the very short preliminary report (available on Pirate Bay) you will discover that the multiple high velocity strikes came from above the aircraft – not below. This is evidenced by the penetrations in the cockpit floor photographs which show that the holes penetrate the floor from above.

# Most of the air to air missiles carried by Ukrainian combat aircraft appear to have proximity fuses. The service ceiling anomaly assumes that the attacking aircraft was an SU25 but, Ukraine also has SU27 and MiG29 aircraft in its inventory, to either of which a 777 at 33000′ would be a sitting duck.

The photos I saw of the wreckage just after the incident showed the skin of the port forward fuselage with what appeared to me (ex-RAF battle airframe tech) shrapnel damage that had been inflicted by a proximate detonation to the front and left of the aircraft.

The photos of the cockpit floor in this piece show the shrapnel having passed through it from above (unless they’ve started carpeting the underside of flightdeck floors).

We further know that there was not just one aircraft up there but three and the two others kept a certain distance [on radar] from the airliner – they had appeared on radar from nowhere, as if from below.

We also know that while the rebels had missiles, Kiev had also moved seven silos into the area and following the hit, they were moved out over the next three days – [see previous NO or OoL post showing how many and when]. We know that the picture sent to the west of the silo skulking behind a building in a suburban street was of a central Ukrainian town not in the two regions.

We know, because western press were allowed to view the backs of lorries carrying aid, that it was aid but at the same time, the weaponry was getting through some way and Russia seemed to be game playing here.

We know that while the flight recorder was whisked away, equally Kiev started firing on the area straight after the hit.

So we’re left inconclusive on MH17, at least on the non-committal preliminary report. What I do know from studying Them in various theatres and with a jaundiced eye, is that the nature of the warfare changes when NATO gets near it or the UN for that matter. Which also includes the EU under that umbrella.

It turns bestial. In Darfur, they’d been killing each other in mutual slaughter, same in Rwanda but once the western agencies got in there, it took a bestial turn – eyes gouged out of babies, people tied together and burned – that sort of thing. We see this in ISIS today. Maximum atrocity, maximum effect. And funded by someone.

There is good evidence that the snipers in Kiev fired on both sides from the offices of the government. There is good evidence that the rebels who fell back to occupy the trades union building walked into a trap and slaughter had already occurred – that infamous pic of the pregnant office worker arched back on her desk, murdered, went out across the Russian world but not over here. There was evidence these people were murdered before the fire engulfed the building.

There’s evidence that the rebels broke the ceasefire by the expedient of Kiev troops advancing on them and the rebels fired but that the Kiev troops strafed the town, not just the rebel positions, blowing up two houses. Either careless or deliberate.

There’s evidence that hundreds of thousands of people from the towns were allowed to escape to Russia, causing a mini humanitarian crisis there, without Kiev firing on them.

We know that Kiev troops blew up the road carrying aid to the stricken towns.

It’s true the ordinary Ukrainian in the centre and west sees NATO and the EU as a buffer against Russia and a chance to join the world community, painted in rosy colours by the EU – they know nothing of our desire to leave at all costs – it’s a trap.

And it’s not the democratic leaders in Kiev but the thugs who got into power, abetted by the western agencies who are providing the firepower and the cash. The western agencies only approve thugs – Gaddafi, Saddam, the Syrian – Putin knows it’s the Kiev thugs in charge and that’s why his fast moves. Takes one to know one.

We know it’s also about oil. It’s also about brothers falling out and the western agencies doing what they can to ferment trouble by putting NATO weaponry on Russia’s doorstep, then accusing it of militarism, which may or may not have been so but was now highly exacerbated and publicized in the media organs of the west. If the word “west” is used, it means here “Them”.

Britain had no need to send troops into Australia, New Zealand, the Falklands and Jersey – these were already onside. Russia had no need, in post-Soviet times, to send in troops to the Ukraine, the UK does not send troops into Scotland. They’re all basically onside, apart from separatists. There was rivalry before but not outright hostility between Russia and the Ukraine, just as with Russia and Serbia. It was different with priBaltika [Estonia etc. and Hungary]. The closer geographically to the west, the more these feelings heighten of separatism.

But the Ukraine had so much cross-marriage that it was ridiculous for them to war. Until the western agencies came in.

1 comment for “MH17

  1. Rightwinggit
    September 11, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    According to a German military expert, the damage looks like two strafing runs from different angles..

    Two Ukrainian fighters were knocked out of the sky a day or two after the 777 went down, dead pilots tell no tales.

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